Ancient genome oracle for admix K36- post your results!

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CatHokage24 United States of America
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Re: Ancient genome oracle for admix K36- post your results!

Post by CatHokage24 » Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:45 pm

Though I've posted results in other forums earlier this year, I'm quite unfamiliar with this. I honestly don't quite understand how the oracle works.

My results seem to differ with each test. My raw data is from Ancestry DNA. Should I anticipate different results if I had testing with a different company and uploaded my genome here? Insight is greatly appreciated!

Here are my results.

I am a Black American.


Population
Percentage
Amerindian
0.30%
Arabian
0.31%
Armenian
0.00%
Basque
0.68%
Central African
0.00%
Central Euro
0.00%
East African
6.59%
East Asian
0.00%
East Balkan
0.09%
East Central Asian
0.00%
East Central Euro
0.80%
East Med
0.00%
Eastern Euro
1.77%
Fennoscandian
0.00%
French
0.47%
Iberian
2.35%
Indo-Chinese
0.00%
Italian
0.00%
Malayan
0.00%
Near Eastern
0.00%
North African
0.00%
North Atlantic
4.22%
North Caucasian
0.41%
North Sea
3.94%
Northeast African
0.00%
Oceanian
1.39%
Omotic
0.83%
Pygmy
4.01%
Siberian
0.00%
South Asian
0.00%
South Central Asian
1.00%
South Chinese
0.00%
Volga-Ural
0.00%
West African
70.87%
West Caucasian
0.00%
West Med
0.00%

Closest population distances
Population
Distance
I2298_published_Tanzania_Pemba_600BP
1.314843
ela001_South_Africa_400BP
1.715628
cha001_South_Africa_500BP
1.716769
I0595_Kenya_400BP
7.069271
MA2196_Ottoman_14001600
7.383436
Gepid_Vim2
7.472161
EMA_Alpine_STR_328
7.523872
EMA_Alpine_STR_310
7.536939


Population
Value
I2298_published_Tanzania_Pemba_600BP
86.8
ela001_South_Africa_400BP
6.6
cha001_South_Africa_500BP
3.4
BA_Hungary_BR1
0.2
BA_Unetice_Poland_RISE150
0.2
Baiuvarii_Germanic_AED_204
0.2
Baiuvarii_Germanic_BIM_33
0.2
Bell_Beaker_Czech_RISE567
0.2
Bell_Beaker_Germany__RISE560_
0.2
CHL_Iberia_I1277
0.2
CHL_Yamnaya_Kalmykia_RISE240
0.2
CHL_Yamnaya_Samara_I0438
0.2
DA224_Kazakhstan_250400AD
0.2
EMA_Czech_RISE569
0.2
IA_Altai_RISE602
0.2
IA_Britain_York_6DRIF23
0.2
IA_Sarmatian_PR3_I0575__Pokrovka
0.2
SZ3_Longobard
0.2
SZ5_Pannonian
0.2

deedbn Great Britain
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Re: Ancient genome oracle for admix K36- post your results!

Post by deedbn » Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:28 am

Hello, I've been DNA testing for quite a while and come to expect results to be pretty broad.
The K36 tests and oracle have similarly been an interest so when i saw them on yourDNAportal (and 'mytrueancestry' i thought i would give the free 'taster' a shot.

I was surprised to see Longobard turn up repeatedly among the closest matches in addition to 'Baiuvarii Germanic' samples. In fact these appear to make up the majority of my 'close' matches

Population Distance
SZ23_Longobard 0.8144188
CL84_Longobard 0.8485823
SZ22_Longobard 0.8577844
SZ11_Longobard 0.9771878
Baiuvarii_Germanic_STR_480 1.0370029
EMA_Hinxton5_Anglosaxon 1.0526172
Baiuvarii_Germanic_STr_220 1.0635055
SZ38_Longobard 1.0978042

With a similar 'top 10' in terms of population percentage;

Population Value
CL84_Longobard 25.6
SZ23_Longobard 19.8
Baiuvarii_Germanic_AED_1119 8.6
Baiuvarii_Germanic_STr_220 6.4
Baiuvarii_Germanic_ALH_2 5.4
SZ3_Longobard 5.4
SZ22_Longobard 4.6
Baiuvarii_Germanic_STR_480 4.2
CL83_Celto-Longobard 2.6
Baiuvarii_Germanic_STR_355 1.8


This is of particular interest as my yDNA branch is R-L2 which is widely given as an Italo-celtic group (attached map from LivingDNA, Z51) and there are broad similarities between the distribution and accounts of Longobard migration.

I guess my rambling questions are;

The matches above, are the GD's even significant or is it the case that the margins are so find with these ancient samples that nothing much can really be inferred? Surely my autosomal dna should represent the distribution of my more recent ancestors so how can the matching be so (apparently) discrete (or am i misunderstanding how this works??
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Jeep United States of America
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Re: Ancient genome oracle for admix K36- post your results!

Post by Jeep » Fri Sep 13, 2019 8:54 am

20190913_025335.jpg
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:P

Well, this shows a clearly overwhelming Celtic origin for myself. I already knew, but it's good to have clarity.
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Arcadiaville
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Re: Ancient genome oracle for admix K36- post your results!

Post by Arcadiaville » Sat Sep 14, 2019 4:50 pm

Jeep wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 8:54 am
Well, this shows a clearly overwhelming Celtic origin for myself. I already knew, but it's good to have clarity.
I have no scientific genetic training, but what if the sample is higher quality / more in-tact and hence a higher match? And what is the ethnic origin of the IA_Britain_York_6DRIF18 sample? I searched online and did not find a specific reference. York, England would be site of ancient Britons and Danelaw area, I would assume. If this is your top match plus 3rd & 5th closest matches, how can you be "certain" of the ethnicity? Is "Beaker" synonymous with "Celtic? or possibly pre-Celtic?

I would add further than I get different Iberian results on this calculator with different commercial DNA kits which seems to influence the ethnic character of my results between "Celtic"-sounding vs. Germanic-sounding. I place "Celtic" in quotes due to common current theory that Celts were a loose amalgamation of linguistic rather than unified genetic tribes (however, I personally have no issue with folks believing themselves to be a united ethic Celtic group. I go to many Highlands games :) ).

Additionally, Lukasz Macuga, the Oracle creator of Eurogene's admixture calculator, and another Polish member "Tomenable" have disclosed in online forums their method of searching Gedmatch kits to use in their calculators and tests. They both comment on "The Apricity" forum whereby a lot of members seem to be joking or trolling, with fake ethnic results in their avatars for LOL, e.g. White Europeans posting pictures of Africans or v/v). I cannot discern from Lukasz Macuga's website or comments on this portal what his scientific background is. I would like for them to explain how they validate the ancestry / ethnicity of these kits that they use in tests for sale. I had a relative score nearly 50% Scandinavian on a FTDNA test a few years ago. About a year later, his score was 0% as all of the Scandinavian moved to British and E. Euro populations. If a major commercial co. like FTDNA can publish such vacillating "deep" ancestry results, I would keep an open mind with any amateur tools.

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Re: Ancient genome oracle for admix K36- post your results!

Post by Amelius » Sat Sep 28, 2019 12:52 pm

It seems from these results that I come mainly from Spain and that I apparently have "Morisco" origins...

Population
Percentage

Amerindian
0.13%

Arabian
0.00%
Armenian
0.00%
Basque
4.95%

Central African
0.00%
Central Euro
0.40%

East African
0.00%
East Asian
0.00%
East Balkan
1.22%

East Central Asian
0.00%
East Central Euro
1.38%

East Med
0.00%
Eastern Euro
3.71%

Fennoscandian
0.36%

French
4.85%

Iberian
40.17%

Indo-Chinese
0.00%
Italian
12.62%

Malayan
0.00%
Near Eastern
8.08%

North African
4.82%

North Atlantic
6.33%

North Caucasian
0.00%
North Sea
5.34%

Northeast African
0.00%
Oceanian
0.10%

Omotic
0.04%

Pygmy
0.00%
Siberian
0.00%
South Asian
0.00%
South Central Asian
0.00%
South Chinese
0.00%
Volga-Ural
0.63%

West African
0.00%
West Caucasian
0.00%
West Med
4.89%



Population
Distance

i7425_Morisco_Andalusia_1500AD
1.65644
Visigoth_Iberian_I12034
1.708231
I3759_Celtiberian
1.753174
i3758_Celtiberian_IA
1.777795
I1388_Beaker_South_France
1.815898
MBA_ATP9_Iberia
1.831572
BA_Portugal_TorreVelha_3831
1.895341
i3759_Celtiberian_IA
1.953427


Population
Value

i7425_Morisco_Andalusia_1500AD
41.8
Visigoth_Iberian_I12034
14.8
I3496_Iberian_Catalonia_200BCE
13
I1388_Beaker_South_France
9.8
i3758_Celtiberian_IA
9
N_Germany_I0795
7.2
CHL_Iberia_I1274
2.4
N_Germany_I0048
1.2
LN_Portugal_Monte_Canelas_1
0.4
MN_Iberia_I0407
0.4
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Aoda France
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Re: Ancient genome oracle for admix K36- post your results!

Post by Aoda » Sat Sep 28, 2019 3:26 pm

Amelius wrote:
Sat Sep 28, 2019 12:52 pm
It seems from these results that I come mainly from Spain and that I apparently have "Morisco" origins...
What does your genealogy say?

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Re: Ancient genome oracle for admix K36- post your results!

Post by Amelius » Sat Sep 28, 2019 3:37 pm

Aoda wrote:
Sat Sep 28, 2019 3:26 pm
Amelius wrote:
Sat Sep 28, 2019 12:52 pm
It seems from these results that I come mainly from Spain and that I apparently have "Morisco" origins...
What does your genealogy say?

My mother was born in andalusia, so i guess the results are pretty consistent, but what surprises me the most is the "moriscos origins" that I did not suspect.

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Re: Ancient genome oracle for admix K36- post your results!

Post by MC2019 » Tue Oct 29, 2019 8:37 pm

Hello,
I originally tested at my heritage before I discovered this genius site. My known ancestors come from Poland (Pomerania), Central Germany, Southwest Germany u. Alsace. For me, the high proportion of Scythians and Lombards is surprising. These peoples appear several times, which probably excludes chance. The Scythians are probably related to the Eastern European populations? The Lombards, on the other hand, are a mystery to me.
Another surprise was in the K36 tests and oracle the Italian, Iberian, French and Basque part, which does not appear at myheritage (here 20% are called Balkan inhabitants), where are there connections? The results below 1% are probably no longer significant?

Population Distance
DA191_Hungary_Scythian 1.122535
SZ42_Longobard 1.185142
SZ22_Longobard 1.240185
SZ5_Pannonian 1.346393
Scythian009_Ukraine 1.363073
IA_Britain_York_6DRIF22 1.367804
BA_Hungary_BR2 1.383275
SZ24_Longobard 1.443681

Population Value
Scythian009_Ukraine 18.4
SZ42_Longobard 12.8
DA191_Hungary_Scythian 12.2
IA_Britain_York_6DRIF22 6.8
SZ14_Longobard 5.2
SZ22_Longobard 5
Baiuvarii_Germanic_BIM_33 4.4
Visigoth_I12162 2
BA_Hungary_BR2 1.8
IA_Britain_York_3DRIF16 1.6
SZ38_Longobard 1.4
Visigoth_south-Euro_mixed_I12031 1.4
EHG_I0124_Samara 1
Kivutkalns_153_Latvia_BA 1
AV1_Hungary_Szolad 0.8
BA_Unetice_Germany_I0117 0.8
Bell_Beaker_Germany_I0059 0.8
CL102_Frankish 0.8
Mesolithic_Sweden_Ajvide58 0.8
BA_Hungary_RISE480 0.6
BA_Hungary_RISE483 0.6
BA_Hungary_RISE484 0.6
DA112_Hallstatt-Bylany_800BC 0.6
DA199HungaryMedieval 0.6
EMA_Alpine_AED_513 0.6
IA_Wielbark_Kow_45_PL 0.6
Mesolithic_CCC_EstoniaKudrukula2_MA974 0.6
N_Germany_I0048 0.6
SZ36_north-Italian 0.6
SZ45_Pannonian 0.6
Vik_84005_Sigtuna_Viking 0.6
Vik_urm160_Sigtuna_Viking 0.6
BA_Hungary_RISE374 0.4
BA_I0070_Minoan 0.4
Baiuvarii_Germanic_STR_248 0.4
CL57_north-Italian 0.4
CL63_Alpine 0.4
CL94_Iberian 0.4
DA29_Golden-Horde_European 0.4
EMA_Balkan_AED_125 0.4
EMA_Czech_Slav_RISE568 0.4
IA_Britain_York_6DRIF23 0.4
Mesolithic_Sweden_Ajvide59 0.4
Mesolithic_Sweden_Stora_Forvar_11 0.4
Niederstotzingen_north-Italian_3c 0.4
SZ12_Longobard 0.4
Turlojiske1_Lithuania_BA 0.4
Visigoth_I12032 0.4
BA_I9033_Mycenaean 0.2
BA_Portugal_TorreVelha_3831 0.2
BA_Unetice_Germany_I0803 0.2
BA_Unetice_Poland_RISE139 0.2
Bell_Beaker_Germany_I0806 0.2
CHL_Iberia_I1303 0.2
DA171_Lithuania_350650AD 0.2
EHG_Yuzhnyy_Oleni_Ostrov_I0211 0.2
EMA_Poland_Slav_Niemcza_34 0.2
EMA_north-Italian_FN_2 0.2
EN_Khvalynsk_I0122 0.2
EN_Ukraine_N1__Vovnigi_2 0.2
I10892_Catalonia_medieval 0.2
I1819_Mesolithic_Ukrain 0.2
I3496_Iberian_Catalonia_200BCE 0.2
I4070_Netherlands_BA 0.2
MN_Germany_I0559 0.2
MN_Germany_I0807 0.2
MN_Iberia_I0406 0.2
MN_Iberia_I0407 0.2
Mesolithic_Hungary_KO1 0.2
Mesolithic_Latvia_HG3 0.2
Mesolithic_Spain_LaBrana 0.2
Mesolithic_Sweden_Motala01 0.2
Mesolithic_Sweden_Motala012 0.2
Mesolithic_Ukraine_HG1 0.2
N_Greece_Revenia5 0.2
N_Hungary_NE7 0.2
N_Levant_AinGhazal4 0.2
SZ15_Longobard 0.2
SZ32_north-Italian 0.2
SZ40_Italian 0.2
i3758_Celtiberian_IA 0.2
i7425_Morisco_Andalusia_1500AD 0.2

Eurogenes K36 Results
Amerindian 0.00%
Arabian 0.00%
Armenian 0.00%
Basque 1.70%
Central African 0.00%
Central Euro 7.46%
East African 0.00%
East Asian 0.00%
East Balkan 0.00%
East Central Asian 0.00%
East Central Euro 14.35%
East Med 2.86%
Eastern Euro 9.29%
Fennoscandian 11.59%
French 4.49%
Iberian 13.03%

Indo-Chinese 0.00%
Italian 12.43%
Malayan 0.00%
Near Eastern 0.00%
North African 0.00%
North Atlantic 9.56%
North Caucasian 0.00%
North Sea 13.23%
Northeast African 0.00%
Oceanian 0.00%
Omotic 0.00%
Pygmy 0.00%
Siberian 0.00%
South Asian 0.00%
South Central Asian 0.00%
South Chinese 0.00%
Volga-Ural 0.00%
West African 0.00%
West Caucasian 0.00%
West Med 0.00%
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Re: Ancient genome oracle for admix K36- post your results!

Post by Arcadiaville » Sat Nov 02, 2019 6:06 pm

Amelius wrote:
Sat Sep 28, 2019 12:52 pm
It seems from these results that I come mainly from Spain and that I apparently have "Morisco" origins...
I find it interesting that your Italian score is about 2x higher than your French score. A French score of around 5% seems low to me for your origins, but this calculator is using ancient samples and more modern nation-state names in some cases. The original Eurogenes calculator did not include an admixture calculator due to high volume of ethnicity populations (results like alphabet soup issue) so I would be curious to learn more about the methodology used by the creator and analysis of testers' results that know their lineage fairly well.
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